Masters House Comments - Brought to you by JoeUserhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/rss/comments© 2006 - 2008 Stardock Corporation. All rights reserved.A blog on the lifestyle of the master slave relationshipen-us2008-07-06T19:14:262008-07-06T19:14:26http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/rss/rss.htmlStardock Rss Generator v1.0, Andrew Powellinfo@stardock.comapowell@stardock.comMaxpower179http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989I mean, like, wow.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Maxpower179 on Running out of oilTototothttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
It takes alot more work to get to deeper oil, oil companies usually only drill out the top portion, the deeper you try, the most expensive it gets.

We need to either find ways to use it more efficiently or find an alternative source.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Tototot on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Australia, Hong Kong, Ireland, Israel, Korea, Poland, Singapore, Taiwan.

Again, wrong. Check out the growth over the last 10 (or 20 years). you will see that with the exception of Korea and Taiwan (both of which were coming up from nothing and therefore invalid) none had a greater rate of growth. for a year? Sure. Not over the long term. Plesae read the entire challenge before jumping guns. Even the worst nation can have a short term rate of growth that is the envy of the world. Long term is what feeds the family however.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Name one - with a long term higher growth. (over a 10 year stretch)

Australia, Hong Kong, Ireland, Israel, Korea, Poland, Singapore, Taiwan.

Many of the countries having slightly less growth than us have more manageable debt levels so they will be able to ride out the current global slowdown better than we will.

In any case what troubles me are the trade deficit, govt deficit, and national debt. The Fed has their hands tied because of the credit problems the subprime market is causing so they hesitate to raise interest rates even tho inflation is about to spiral out of control. The last decade of government stupidity is about to deal a serious blow to the economy.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989There's a lot of countries that have higher gas prices than we do that have higher economic growth numbers than we do.

Name one - with a long term higher growth. (over a 10 year stretch). for the most part, what you will find is Non-European, small country where mass transit is a going concern due to high population density. And a growth rate similar or smaller than ours (unless you count the up and coming countries that are just joining the first world - like Korea was 30 years ago). 10% of nothing is easier to achieve than 5% of something.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Only in concept now, unless you consider the third world. But the statement in itself is correct, even if there is no where to find it in practice.

There's a lot of countries that have higher gas prices than we do that have higher economic growth numbers than we do. They drive smaller more efficient cars and have structured their energy sources around what is available to themselves. The US economy is about to tank because too many politicians are pandering to special interests and care more about their reelections than what is happening to the country.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Are you suggesting that corporations that lose money is a problem? My company lost money should the government bail me out?

I did not suggest corp loss as the problem or a govt bailout as the solution. The problem was predatory lending and the federal gov'ts lack of oversight. When certain local govts. tried to enact laws to curb the predatory lending the fed. govt stepped in and stopped them. This was one of the main causes.

Since the prices are artificially high do to speculation and poor business practices the market has to correct itself. This is normal


Whats happening this time is not normal. Subprime lending increased significantly since 2000. There are still a bunch of subprime loans which will reset next year and in 2010 which will cause a lot more foreclosures than we've already seen.

Only a fool would expect that. Since we have a 200 year supply


You're the fool who looks at reserve numbers and oil company commercials without thinking about what else matters. What matters is how fast and cheaply it comes out of the ground. Cheap oil is from sources which are naturally pushed up to the surface and these types of sources are becoming rarer every day. A land well for example starts at about 5000 bbls/day and over time reduces to abt 5 bbls/day. They also produce higher lvls of water in the crude as time goes on. Usually only 20-40% of a field can be recovered this way. A lot of current technology involves gas injection to increase yields but this is a lot less efficient, a lot more costly, causes a lot more pollution, and only adds 10-20% to field recovery. So keep quoting the oil company commercial slogans because they are really only looking after their own interests not yours.

Who are they? How are they doing it better than we are?

Simply enlighten yourself. Some of them took steps starting in the 70's to become energy independent. Some of them have models we can't follow because we have different sources available to us, but one thing i can say is oil is not the answer. Once Iraq oil production gets up to snuff U.S. oil cos will buy from there and sit on U.S. leases because offshore oil is more expensive to recover, so we will end up sending more of our wealth to Iraq as well as Saudi Arabia, China and India.

This is a result of the windfall profits tax from the 70’s works great don’t you think


It is not the result of that WPT's. It is the result of foreign oil sources being cheaper to recover than from drilling offshore. A lot cheaper! You really do need to get away from the spin because both sides are lying to you.

]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Who are they? How are they doing it better than we are?

Only in concept now, unless you consider the third world. But the statement in itself is correct, even if there is no where to find it in practice.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989The countries that are most efficient and less dependent on oil will do best as oil prices rise in the future.

This is true. And it is not going to be some government mandate that pushes us to conserve and be more efficient in our use, but the high price. In the end, this upheaval may be a good thing. One of the beefs about China and India is their extremely low cost of production. We cannot compete because no one here is going to work for $1.25/day. But that is just one cost of production. The high price of fuel is going to get many entrepreneurs to look for more efficient and cheaper ways to produce the same things. It will probably not be in China or India that these innovations come from because even with the expensive oil, they are still cheaper and can pass on their costs to the consumer.

It will be where the cost of labor is high, and therefor the cost of fuel is one factor that can be cut. ONce that happens (whether in Europe, Japan, or the US), they will adopt it quickly, and the balance will shift (not permanently - the only constant in life is change). But enough. This will make us cleaner, and cheaper in many areas for at least a time to come. And without the government mucking things up.

High gas prices are the nasty tasting medicine. Necessary to instigate the change that will come. And in the end, better for us. And it happened not because anyone thought we should conserve, but from a combination of greed on the part of OPEC, and the law of Supply and Demand.

One other note. Wells are capped when the price to pump the stuff is not economically feasible. Not to drive up the price. There are too many producers, and the allegations of price gouging and collusion have been investigated out the wazoo by the clowns in DC - without ever finding any basis for prosecution.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989If you believe this then you are ignorant. 400 billion in losses in a multi-trillion market is not a large loss.

That is not market loss, that was declared losses on corporate statements from foreclosures which is growing rapidly every day.That's just the tip of the hat. RE prices are still sinking further and the foreclosure rate is still growing. Not to mention an extremely large percentage of US wealth is tied to real estate values. Many small businesses are created using home equity so when real estate values drop so does a large portion of potential economic growth.

Not true the rise in gas prices are caused by a group of people that are allowed to speculate outside our borders. This was caused by President Clinton when he did away with the law prohibiting this action.


You are incorrect. It's mostly from hedge and some index funds. As the subprime crisis surfaced investments flowed out of stocks and bonds and into commodities. Commodities usually trend opposite to the stock market, this has been the case for a very long time. However this cycle has obviously been MUCH sharpen than usual. The Enron Loophole is possibly making the bubble bigger but the main inflow of commodities investment is due to the decline in the stock and bond markets. In any case Phil Gramm was the legislator directly tied to the Enron Loophole.

because the rest of the world is not going to conserve so what we don’t use will just be grabbed up by the developing nations and the price will rise if not remain constant


Maybe you should actually take a look at what the rest of the world is doing instead of listening to a partisan spin machine. We are the big pigs in energy consumption per capita.

Drill for more oil and there is more to go around the price falls.


The oil companies drill new wells all the time....Then they cap them and sit on them. They are already sitting on the leases to about 80% of our reserves. Fixing the supply/demand problem means fixing demand because supply will drop at some point in time no matter what we do. It took a long time to go from fire to coal then coal to oil. Don't expect to be able to ween off oil overnight.

China and India represent one third of our population and they said they will not stop polluting, or building, or growing. With that going on conservation means nothing on a global scale.


Once again you should look past the partisan spin machine. Maybe you should call conservation efficiency because that is really what its all about. Conservation means everything on a global scale. The countries that are most efficient and less dependent on oil will do best as oil prices rise in the future. ]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989The only people who got hurt in the subprime market were the speculators that caused the bubble in the first place, and the people that did not do what they were told to do in order to get the loan.

That is incorrect. Many people will be affected by the subprime crisis. There has been and will be further loss by many individual and corporate investors as well as losses in retirement accounts because of the way the financial markets wrapped poor quality loans into mortgage backed securities and CDO's. It already accounts for over 400 billion in losses a number which continues to grow as things unfold. It has cause a lack of confidence in financial markets so we have seen and keep seeing more and more money coming out of financial markets. Normally when money comes out of stocks it goes into bonds, however since MBS's and CDO's are bonds the money has gone into commodities. Money market accounts aren't even safe right now because some of them use MBS's and CDO's. The rush into commodities is why gas and food prices have risen so sharply. This will aggrevate global markets even more since global crude prices are set according to US crude prices and the US is the breadbasket of the world. So maybe now you see how this is truly affecting not just U.S speculators. It is global in scope also because the CDO's and MBS's were sold to foreign investors. The trade deficit makes us rely on foreign investment. So now you might understand the snowball effect.We are still at the beginning of what will be a very long recession or worse. Should I mention that the floods in the Midwest right now are ruining crops?

]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Wrong - You cant prosecute for loopholes

I didn't say you could. Certain loopholes need to be eliminated because of their potential for hiding fraud,etc. There are many such loopholes that have been identified that are not being addressed or are having legislation that addresses them slowed by various politicians. Just as transparency is essential to help reduce fraud in government it is also necessary to help reduce fraud out of the business and financial communities. ]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989simply casting doubt by saying its PSB is hogwash. That kind of attitude and stupidity is exactly what allows certain politicians to continue to lie to the public.

You will note that I cast no doubt, just asked PBS? As in these are widely reported and other sources available. PBS - for whatever good it is for - is not an in depth news agency. Period.

Prosecuting after the fact does not show the system is working. The loopholes or laws that allowed some of this corruption or manipulation have not been changed.


Wrong - You cant prosecute for loopholes - that is why they are called loopholes. You can only prosecute for violations of the law. Which has happened. Which means it worked. Man is not a bunch of saints. And as many Mother Theresas you have, you will get as many Ken Lays. that is why we have laws. And that is why it is working. Man cannot build a system (other than a totally totalitarian one and even then the abuses of the elite will not be stopped) that will not be abused. Remember the cliche about being "foolproof"? The problem is fools are ingenious.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
Prosecuting after the fact does not show the system is working. The loopholes or laws that allowed some of this corruption or manipulation have not been changed. Some of the current stuff, for ie. the sub prime crisis was seen in advance and nothing was done as it was starting. The Fed and market regulatory bodies warned and are still warning about the same loopholes and changes are still currently being blocked by certain people in congress. Watch CSPAN, this kind of stuff is currently being addressed. I've seen bankers, the Fed, market regulators, and people within the related industries go in front of congress and point out what some of the problems are yet a lot of the necessary changes are still being blocked by certain legislators. It's rediculous to say the least.
]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Arthur Anderson
Enron
Bear Sterns
Jack Ambramoff
Duke Cunnigham
Tom Delay
Jerry Lewis
Bill Lowery
William Jefferson
Angelo Mozilo
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tax/view/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/regulation/view/
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/407/index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2008/05/303-index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2008/04/302-index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2008/02/301-index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2007/10/quid-pro-quo.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2007/02/friends-in-high-places.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2006/10/nice-work-if-you-can-get-it.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2006/09/crisis-mismanagement.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2006/11/science-fiction.html

PBS? Nothing better?

But dont you think that the fact these abuses are known (and for the most part have been or are being prosecuted) indicates that the system is working? Man is not perfect, and no creation of man will be either. That is why we have checks and balances, and laws and punishment. Indeed, I guess I see the glass half full. Your proof that the system is broken is my proof that the system is working.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
You say you know the system is broken, fine, lay it out for me


Ill let you do the research...Google is your friend,Here's a starter list

Arthur Anderson
Enron
Bear Sterns
Jack Ambramoff
Duke Cunnigham
Tom Delay
Jerry Lewis
Bill Lowery
William Jefferson
Angelo Mozilo
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tax/view/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/regulation/view/
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/407/index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2008/05/303-index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2008/04/302-index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2008/02/301-index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2007/10/quid-pro-quo.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2007/02/friends-in-high-places.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2006/10/nice-work-if-you-can-get-it.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2006/09/crisis-mismanagement.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/2006/11/science-fiction.html
]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989But I also know when the system is broken.

Know? Or think. Fact versus opinion.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Let me try to understand you, people that have a socialist agenda are to be believed and people with a capitalist agenda are to be ignored?

I believe in business and capitalism. But I also know when the system is broken.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Ignorance is bliss

Arrogance is not.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989It proved that the politicians who are trying to make others disbelieve are lying about it. They are mostly politicians from coal states trying to protect the coal industry.

Great! Let them tell their side with their propaganda. And we are supposed to believe the Algore-ites are purity itself? They do the same thing, with a difference. Those "greedy bastards" promoting their solutions (in your example - coal) have their agenda laid bare - jobs and money. Dirty terms for many I know. But where are you going to find the same expose' for Algore and his ilk and their naked goals? Well, there is definitely money (selling indulgences), but where are the jobs?

Nowhere. There are no white knights in this. Just dark and darker knights. And right now, the snake oil is coming from the Global Warming side. Lots of flowery rhetoric and promises, but when you use the old adage - and follow the money - you see that it is just a new version of the Jim Bakker scam played on a larger scale.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989That story was entirely about the politics of the issue. It pointed out some of the lobbies involved and which politicians they are associated with. It flat out accuses members of both parties being at fault for stalling the issue. That is why it is not partisan.It shows that the blame can be spread all over both sides of the aisle.

I was not commenting on that story, only on your posts here.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
DOH
]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989That is hardly partisan.

Partisan is usually used in conjunction with politics, but it can just as easily be used with issues. This one you clearly are partisan on, to the point you are bordering on insults to those who do not cleave to your line. And that is not how you debate or discuss issues if you want to win converts or influence people.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/view/

Watch this show carefully

PBS is hardly neutral. They are flaming liberal, which is fine if you are looking for validation of a liberal bent. But hardly worthy of use in a civilized debate (Kind of like using Ken Burns as your sole basis of fact finding on the Civil war).

Your so blinded by partisan politics it isn't even funny.


I would say the same for you. Recognizing your own biases is helpful in framing your arguments of persuasion to sway others to your way of thinking. Denying them makes you more antagonistic to those you are trying to sway, and defeats the purpose.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989"My Graphs" refer to global temperature change not the extent of glacial melting. Go ahead and link your information. I'm quite familiar with a lot of NOAA's information. After all i had to get ice reports to safely navigate my ship into places like Valdez for many years.

I was not referring to the graphs in relation to the glaciers, only the issue of causality with global warming. As far as I know, NOAA is not doing graphs on glaciation. And it is good you use NOAA for navigation from storms and such. But I would be interested to see how floating your boat on the ocean has anything to do with glaciers. Icebergs sure, but then we had those 96 years ago too.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
Watch this show carefully because it shows how both sides have dropped the ball since the 80's. This is not a partisan thing. Im an independant who hates both sides because they are both screwing the public. Your so blinded by partisan politics it isn't even funny. Its rather sad.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Then how can anyone say that anything is causing them anything? Man was not around millions and billions of years ago.

Because the melting point of water is 32 degrees farenheit(give or take depending on salinity). As far as what caused specific cycles. Extensive volcanic action is theoried to have been of significance in the past, however we are talking about the current cycle.

And the "your graphs" was the ones you linked to. Should I link to the NOAA ones for you?


"My Graphs" refer to global temperature change not the extent of glacial melting. Go ahead and link your information. I'm quite familiar with a lot of NOAA's information. After all i had to get ice reports to safely navigate my ship into places like Valdez for many years.

]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Normal life of glaciers? What is normal and what isn't. There is no normalized life of glaciers. Glaciers have come and gone over millions or billions or maybe gazillions of years for various reasons.

Then how can anyone say that anything is causing them anything? Man was not around millions and billions of years ago.

And the "your graphs" was the ones you linked to. Should I link to the NOAA ones for you?]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
Normal life of glaciers? What is normal and what isn't. There is no normalized life of glaciers. Glaciers have come and gone over millions or billions or maybe gazillions of years for various reasons. ]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989You must be looking at graphs that are published by partisan political zealots. Are not 90% of the earths glaciers melting and melting at an increasing rate? Go find a non partisan graph please. Ive seen the glaciers in Alaska every year for the past 20 years.

I was looking at your graphs, and no on the glaciers (unless you count the normal life of glaciers).]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
Education....sure you want to know?

BS Marine Transportation-U.S.C.G. Licensed Master-Unlimited Tonnage
BS Marine Engineering-U.S.C.G Licensed 3rd Assistant Engineer Steam/Motor Unlimited HP
BS Petroleum Engineering
Certified Professional Engineer

I could list a whole lot more certifications that I have received over the years but i think you may now understand that I am in fact well educated.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
Its extremely ironic that my entire career has revolved around the petrochemical industry. I've worked on tankers and in the office of their companies shipping crude, gas and chemicals. I know not only what i have researched personally but also what ive seen on my trips to places like Valdez. Watching friends i shipped with die of Leukemia. And listening to what the experts who work for the petrochemical industry say behind closed doors about global warming. It is not the same thing as what the politicians they have successfully lobbied say.


End of conversation. Go ahead and don't figure it out for yourself. The only thing that it not certain is the extent of the changes that are attributable to the burning of fossil fuels so we can wait for a few more decades then realize we passed the point of no return or start now and maybe still have a enough oil and coal left, and enough leeway to carbon emissions so that we can power the things that are more difficult to power with alternative solutions. Maybe its too late now or maybe some currently unknown will reverse the trend in the future, but twiddling ones thumbs while the robber barons protect their industries is not a good alternative. ]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989You are totally incorrect. All one has to do is look at a few graphs and see how drastically the rate of change of global warming has accelerated.

See? That is where we can debate. Because I have looked at the graphs (you can search JU and find them and links to the articles). The graphs show no such thing. They show a trend, since reversed in the last 10 years, of a minor increase in global temperature. No one can say if it has accellerated because accurate temperature readings have only been available for the past 100+ years. And trying to establish a trend when you can only look at data from that represents basically less than .0000001% of the whole data is idiocy as any statistician will tell you.

All that we know - all that any scientist or layman - is that the earth warmed from the mid 70s to the late 90s. A nice 20 year run up. It cooled from the mid 40s to the mid 70s, and has cooled (insignificantly) since the late 90s. That is what it is all about. Now why did it do it? The answer is simplicity itself. NO ONE KNOWS. Lots of hypotheses and conjecture, but as yet no observable cause and effect has been established, and therefore no theory has even been put forth (scientists may be prima donnas but they are not stupid - scratch that - most are not).

Now, using those exact same graphs, explain how the world temperature dropped in the 40s, during the greatest man made holocaust of all time! When the level of CO2 put out by man dwarfs that even of today! (Burning buildings provide a lot of heat - and polution, etc.) The facts do not fit the prevailing hypotheses. It may be they need to gather more data. It may be that they are false. We can and should debate it. We should never accept it as fact based upon what amounts to faith.

In any case even if you take the global warming issue out of the discussion you have to look some of the many other issues involved with increased fossil fuel use. Leukemia, cancer, athsma, contamination of ground water and drinking water sources, air pollution, etc.


YES! I am with you all the way here! Clean up the damn planet! Yes, reduce polution! But lets do so for the right reason, and in a sane and rational way. Lets do it because of the reasons you list above (although again you omit the biggest factor leading to the increase in these diseases - improved medicine). But lets not harken back to the days of fearing the coming of winter and that we have displeased the sun god and that is why he is going away! For that is what I hear from the true faithful of GW. not reasoned debate, but superstitious hysteria.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
In any case even if you take the global warming issue out of the discussion you have to look some of the many other issues involved with increased fossil fuel use. Leukemia, cancer, athsma, contamination of ground water and drinking water sources, air pollution, etc.


This list goes on and on but if you don't look at both sides of the argument you are essential blind in the overall issue. If you look at the politics of it all you will see that the vast majority of politicians that still deny the global warming/climate change side of the issue are ones that are from coal/oil producing states and are doing so to protect those industries and their seats in congress. They really don't care about you. or the future. They care about supporting the industries that are paying for their campaigns so that they can live like kings alongside the robber barons.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Global warming is a result of the greenhouse effect, that is why is use it in my overly sarcastic remarks. You are simply too ignorant to see through your own ignorance on the science of global warming/climate change and what oil consumption has to do with it.

No, you are dead wrong. There is a hypothesis on the table of climatologists that makes this claim. But the data is nto supporting the hypothesis. You just made a statement of fact. It is not. And therein lies the problem. Those who cannot see beyond the creed of the new religion state it as fact. Yet it is apparent from the data, and from the dissenting scientific views, that the hypothesis is not even a theory or close to it.

The data when looked at objectively, does not show a causality between greenhouse and global warming. It only shows a fluctuation (note not even trend at this point since it has been almost completely reversed with revision of the data since the hypothesis was first proposed) of the temperatures that they cannot explain and they then hypothesized that it was man made. But the correlation is not there.

There is a strong correlation between the suns activities and global warming, but a very weak one between man's actions and global warming. And in the end, the efforts to stiffle the dissent on the issue only serves to reinforce the appearance that it is not science at all, but a new religion.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
We do in fact still have enough capacity to refine our own DOMESTIC oil production. If we are not opening more wells faster then we are depleting old wells (which is the situation) common sense says that is true. I'm talking about DOMESTIC production and not products refined from foreign crude oil. I believe we currently get the vast majority of our imported oil from Canada right now which comes from their shale sands, is refined in Canada and is imported under NAFTA treaty regulations. I have been to many of the US owned oil refineries around the world


There is nothing holding back solar power generation. The technology certainly gets better as time passes and its efficiency has certainly gotten better since i got my first panels but it is like most other technologies...it gets better as time passes by.

My argument about Iraq is not weak and if you knew anything about US National Security/Middle East Foreign Policy you would realize that my argument about Iraq is not my argument. It is what the current war in Iraq is all about. There may only be a few wells there but it not about the number of wells. It is about the fact the the 2nd largest quantity of oil reserves in the world lies within the borders of Iraq. We have the UN signatory countries and international law keeping us from making Iraq a US territory however the plan is to get the newly formed government to sign away their oil leases to US and British Oil companies.

As to Saudi Arabia there once was a company called Aramco. I let you do the research on that one.

Might as well mention Iran...That company was called AOIC...once again google is your friend.

]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
Put a greenhouse in your backyard and grow some tasty veggies or maybe some more of the weed your smoking. In the middle of winter enter it and wonder why the same sun is making it warm and cozy inside there but not outside of it. Then exit the greenhouse and pray that God doesn't send a bunch of tornadoes or a flood your way before you get a chance to build an ark.

Carbon in=carbon out. Matter does not just simply disappear. So when u drive on down the road make sure you plant more weed in your greenhouse because somebody else just cut down a tree to build a house and that was the carbon out part of the equation.

We do not ship out crude oil to be to be refined at foreign refineries then ship it back with a tax on it. We have enough refining capacity to refine all of the domestic oil we produce for the domestic market. As to foreign oil we refine some of it here but what we can't handle is shipped on foreign flagged tankers and shipped and refined at U.S. owned foreign based refineries. Trust me the refining companies love their foreign based refineries. No business taxes, no OSHA, no unions. My screen name is Smoothseas for a reason. Don't try to con me about an industry i worked in for over 20 years and i won't con u about yours....smoking weed.

I won't address gasoline engine efficiency since your greenhouse doesn't have enough room to plant more weed.

Actually maybe i will...Who was it that repealed the CAFE standards way back when...Oh yea Ronald Regan.

Yes nuclear power plants...we will probably have to build more in the future... i do believe it is part of solving our energy problems. I just haven't figured out yet how to tell Iran they can't build any while we do and not be called a hypocrite.

Wind power is not ready yet? Go visit the Netherlands.

Solar power is not ready yet? I started cutting my electric bill in half over 20 years ago.

Don't kid yourself. Offshore Oil drilling is expensive. Its much easier to invade Iraq, get leases for the cheapest source to tap then pass the bill for the war off to the taxpayer. That's the true windfall tax, even though i think its called the War Appropriations bill and its cost is definately being passed on to the consumer.










]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
There were a couple of programs i saw recently that were interesting because they were not specifically about global warming and climate change but did address these issues. One was about the history of the oil and the oil industry and the other was about the history of the earth. There was a lot of information in both about bio and petro chemistry. With a basic understanding of these chemistries as well as the "greenhouse effect" it is very clear that some extent of global warming/climate change is man-made.

So I don't even think there is a man-made/not man-made argument but more how much of the problem is man-made and how much of the man-made component can be eliminated and how quickly without tanking economies. The problem is that both parties have taken sides with special interest groups so very little progress is being made on the issue. It would be best if industry simply went in the right direction by itself but that is not happening. The oil and coal lobbies have tied the hands of the reps and the environmentalists have tied the hands of the dems so that nuclear power hasn't been an option. It should be obvious to most that the oil and coal industries are even aware of the problem. They should be, part of their workforce is a substantial number of petrochemists.


In any case it is very complicated. Solar and wind power generation are extremely good solutions but probably not complete solutions. I think we would also need more nuclear to meet the needs of projected energy demands, however nuclear power does have its negatives which include safety and nuclear proliferation concerns.
]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989I would suggest that you subscribe to the HD tier of your cable provier and start watching programs on the Discovery, NatGeo, History etc. channels

Dont know about your neck of the woods, but Comcast still has most of those channels on Basic, so you do not have to go digital to see them.

As for the comment about educating about global warming, I can only speak for myself and comment on what I have read. However, I would say that most of the members of JU are very well educated on the subject, and that has lead to a greater skepticism of the whole religion. One tactic used by the shaman of the new religion is to frame the question into a yes or no answer, and then use that answer to answer a different question.

Case in point - Do you believe there is Global Warming?

Most will answer yes. But the high priests of global warming will then tell the world "he beleives in man-made global warming". That was never the question, and there is no way to tell from the simple answer.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilSmoothseashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989
I do believe that Nuclear power is part of the equation to potentially stave off some of the consequences that the REALITY of global climate change will present but if you were actually educated on these subjects you would have realized before you posted that the vast majority of power plants in the US are coal fired so they do not significantly affect the price of gasoline. Drilling in ANWR or offshore and building new refineries in the US will not significantly lower oil prices or our dependence on foreign oil. The current price of crude oil is due to excess speculation in the futures market which is being caused by several factors.

People really need to put aside partisan politics to see the light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to figuring out what truly needs to be done as far an energy policy. Both parties have "bought" voting blocs by supporting specific special interest groups so neither party can form an adequate energy policy without using certain solutions from the other and discarding some of their own.






]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Smoothseas on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Why don't you enlighten our resident genius and stop stringing him along.

I think (or at least "it" said they were not male) it is a she. Hence the sally (it could have been Hortense, Gertrude or Esmerelda).

3 fingers - when you point a finger at someone, 3 of your fingers are pointing at you!

3 finger sally.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989as opposed to the "high minded intelligent way" you attempted to slur me?

That just shows your ignorance. 3 finger sally is not a slur. Idiot.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilThe_Politicohttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989attempt to slur my mother just demonstrates your childishness and pettiness

as opposed to the "high minded intelligent way" you attempted to slur me?
]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27The_Politico on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/3119893 finger sallyWhy are you mentioning your mother?

Your ignorance of the reference and attempt to slur my mother just demonstrates your childishness and pettiness. Guess like Locamama says, you are a good little Obamababy.]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilThe_Politicohttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/3119893 finger sally

Why are you mentioning your mother?]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27The_Politico on Running out of oilDr Guyhttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Yet you needed to comment anyway.Find a republican that doesn't make earth shatteringly stupid comments and I will comment on theirs instead.

3 finger sally insults herself again! ]]>http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Dr Guy on Running out of oilBasmashttp://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989http://paladin77.joeuser.com/article/311989Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:14:27 -04002008-07-06T19:14:27Basmas on Running out of oil